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, and the energy grid. but civil engineers say that investment is not enough. but 2020 the infrastructure will need $3.6 trillion. that would get us to a b grade, which is adequate for now, but the american society of civil engineers projected the u.s. will spend just $2 trillion, leaving a $1.6 trillion gap. i want to bring in michael grun wald and ken rogoff. also the author of the new new deal, the hidden story of change in the obama era. ken rogoff is a professor at harvard and a former chief economist at the international monetary fund. gentleman, welcome. michael, i want to start with you. when i tell my viewers, when i tell them about investing, i say pick a goal. we should think about investing in infrastructure in the same way. what do you mean? >> i think that's right. as you mentioned the obama stimulus did pour about $150 billion into our infrastructure and its build america bonds was a hidden stimulus inside the stimulus put in another $180 billion. that's a start. that's how you start to create the sort of strong infrastructure that makes people want to make our economy more competiti
energy system so that the lights stay on. this is the basics that make our economy attractive to investors. >> ken, this is an old conversation. you've been having it for a long time. i have spoke on to a lot of politicians about it. generally speaking, the overwhelming major ta say, sure, you should have better infrastructure and government involvement in it. there's a small proportion of people generally conservatives who say government has no role in this. assuming your in the group that agrees government has a role in it, the conversation switches to how you pay for it. what's the best way for us to look at how to pay for improving our infrastructure. >> first, government has to have some role. even if the private sector is building a road or building a port, there's all kinds of regulations, environment approv approvals. it's sort of nonsense to say the government can't play a role or shouldn't play a role. but clearly the u.s. has a very conservative attitude towards allowing private sector funding in. we should have more partnerships. the president has proposed the idea
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